NWN2: Alternate AI scripts for the companions.

[Michael Vondung]

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=NWN2HakpaksOriginal.Detail&id=11

The author updated the alternate AI scripts again (note the last point!):

V0.3:
- Rangers/Arcane Archers will use rapid shot (if they have it).
- Monks will always use flurry of blows in melee.
- Casters will use defensive casting in melee.
- Henchmen hopefully switch weapons to melee in melee (not sure if they
will switch back yet), monks should use their hands.
- Henchmen should no longer use bard song/turn undead/frenzy/berserk/dragon
breath when abilities are disabled.
- I believe the lock ups were fixed.
- Clerics and druids should start healing others.

The files go into the Override folder in My Documents/Neverwinter Nights
2/, NOT in the Override folder in the game directory.

Discussion thread:

http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=519921&forum=109&sp=0

M.

[Olaf]

This is a great mod. I do find it sad that fans are so much more effective
and responsive at correcting things like this that ought to have been caught
(and I am sure were) in beta.

[Memnoch]

Post by Olaf
This is a great mod. I do find it sad that fans are so much more effective
and responsive at correcting things like this that ought to have been caught
(and I am sure were) in beta.

I'm sure they were caught but its whether they have time to implement the
patches. More serious items will get priority.

[Olaf]

Post by Memnoch

Post by Olaf
This is a great mod. I do find it sad that fans are so much more effective
and responsive at correcting things like this that ought to have been caught
(and I am sure were) in beta.

I'm sure they were caught but its whether they have time to implement the
patches. More serious items will get priority.

I dont know how much you have played but the braindead AI and the fucked
behavior tabs are extremely detrimental to enjoyable gameplay.

[Memnoch]

Post by Olaf

Post by Memnoch

Post by Olaf
This is a great mod. I do find it sad that fans are so much more effective
and responsive at correcting things like this that ought to have been caught
(and I am sure were) in beta.

I'm sure they were caught but its whether they have time to implement the
patches. More serious items will get priority.

I dont know how much you have played but the braindead AI and the fucked
behavior tabs are extremely detrimental to enjoyable gameplay.

I suppose I haven't noticed that much as I leave the AI on but tend to give
them a nudge in the right direction during combat. I'll have to give the
tweaked AI a go.

[Olaf]

Post by Memnoch
I suppose I haven't noticed that much as I leave the AI on but tend to give
them a nudge in the right direction during combat. I'll have to give the
tweaked AI a go.

The tweaked AI has some problems too, its by no means perfect. Most
irritating is a weapon switching bugs will certain characters will all of a
sudden have a preference for regular, non-magic crappy weapons over their
badass weapon of ultimate doom. But it does a couple of things better and
the guy working on it so far has been a lot more active than Obsidian.

[Memnoch]

Post by Olaf

Post by Memnoch
I suppose I haven't noticed that much as I leave the AI on but tend to give
them a nudge in the right direction during combat. I'll have to give the
tweaked AI a go.

The tweaked AI has some problems too, its by no means perfect. Most
irritating is a weapon switching bugs will certain characters will all of a
sudden have a preference for regular, non-magic crappy weapons over their
badass weapon of ultimate doom. But it does a couple of things better and
the guy working on it so far has been a lot more active than Obsidian.

I just noticed that. Khelgar has a huge Greataxe called Re's Revenge or
something similar. Half way through a fight I noticed he had switched to a
sword and shield! I guess the only way to stop this is to take his toys away
from him?

[chainbreaker]

Post by Memnoch
I just noticed that. Khelgar has a huge Greataxe called Re's Revenge
or something similar. Half way through a fight I noticed he had
switched to a sword and shield! I guess the only way to stop this is
to take his toys away from him?

Sounds like an invitation to go bare knucks to me, if you do that. :-)

[Memnoch]

Post by chainbreaker

Post by Memnoch
I just noticed that. Khelgar has a huge Greataxe called Re's Revenge
or something similar. Half way through a fight I noticed he had
switched to a sword and shield! I guess the only way to stop this is
to take his toys away from him?

Sounds like an invitation to go bare knucks to me, if you do that. :-)

I've just completed the first part of that quest. I'm not sure how its going
to work out for him to be honest but its worth a look. If it doesn't work out
he can always go back to that Axe.

[Michael Vondung]

Post by Memnoch
I'm sure they were caught but its whether they have time to implement the
patches. More serious items will get priority.

Well, the AI is a serious item, though. The game, at times (in some
situations, not across the board), felt broken *because* of the AI.
Particularly the issue with the healing NPCs not healing anyone but
themselves. They *never*, not once, healed anyone else, before Even wrote
the alternate AI scripts.

M.

[chainbreaker]

Post by Michael Vondung

Post by Memnoch
I'm sure they were caught but its whether they have time to
implement the patches. More serious items will get priority.

Well, the AI is a serious item, though. The game, at times (in some
situations, not across the board), felt broken *because* of the AI.
Particularly the issue with the healing NPCs not healing anyone but
themselves. They *never*, not once, healed anyone else, before Even
wrote the alternate AI scripts.
M.

I haven't really had a chance to look at how this alternate script
works--does it simply change some settings available to you on the in-game
behavior menu, or does it delve deeper into the game's innards than that?

[Michael Vondung]

Post by chainbreaker
does it simply change some settings available to you on the in-game
behavior menu, or does it delve deeper into the game's innards than that?

It goes deeper. The in-game settings affect the custom AI scripts also,
it's just stuff like "use/don't use your abilities (i.e. shapeshafting)" or
"follow me and stay close/not so close/stay the hell away from me". The
scripts themselves enhance the actual "intelligence" of the NPCs. i.e. add
conditions, i.e. "if you spot a trap, go and disarm it BUT don't be a
dumbfuck so IF you are in the middle of the fight, then wait until it is
over, killl everything first, THEN go and disarm the trap". The "stock"
scripts only say "if you spot a trap, go and disarm it" with the results
you'd expect.

The game supports all of that, it's just that the default AI scripts are
not making use of the available power.

M.

[Memnoch]

Post by Michael Vondung

Post by chainbreaker
does it simply change some settings available to you on the in-game
behavior menu, or does it delve deeper into the game's innards than that?

It goes deeper. The in-game settings affect the custom AI scripts also,
it's just stuff like "use/don't use your abilities (i.e. shapeshafting)" or
"follow me and stay close/not so close/stay the hell away from me". The
scripts themselves enhance the actual "intelligence" of the NPCs. i.e. add
conditions, i.e. "if you spot a trap, go and disarm it BUT don't be a
dumbfuck so IF you are in the middle of the fight, then wait until it is
over, killl everything first, THEN go and disarm the trap". The "stock"
scripts only say "if you spot a trap, go and disarm it" with the results
you'd expect.
The game supports all of that, it's just that the default AI scripts are
not making use of the available power.

Makes you wonder why not. Did they not have the time to do them properly? I
assume that they KNOW how to make their own scripts work so it had to be time
right?

[Gerry Quinn]

Post by Memnoch

Post by Michael Vondung

Post by chainbreaker
does it simply change some settings available to you on the in-game
behavior menu, or does it delve deeper into the game's innards than that?

It goes deeper. The in-game settings affect the custom AI scripts also,
it's just stuff like "use/don't use your abilities (i.e. shapeshafting)" or
"follow me and stay close/not so close/stay the hell away from me". The
scripts themselves enhance the actual "intelligence" of the NPCs. i.e. add
conditions, i.e. "if you spot a trap, go and disarm it BUT don't be a
dumbfuck so IF you are in the middle of the fight, then wait until it is
over, killl everything first, THEN go and disarm the trap". The "stock"
scripts only say "if you spot a trap, go and disarm it" with the results
you'd expect.
The game supports all of that, it's just that the default AI scripts are
not making use of the available power.

Makes you wonder why not. Did they not have the time to do them properly? I
assume that they KNOW how to make their own scripts work so it had to be time
right?

The obvious answer is that AI is an unsolved problem and nobody knows
how to write a script that will do the right thing in all situations.

Sadly, this is the same issue that has made all the games in this mode
since BG, with a partial exception for PS:T, unplayable for me.

If you want tactical party combat, either you need to keep the
environment simple (a la Diablo etc.) or make it turn-based.
Everything else just comes up broken every time.

- Gerry Quinn

[Memnoch]

Post by Gerry Quinn

Post by Memnoch

Post by Michael Vondung

Post by chainbreaker
does it simply change some settings available to you on the in-game
behavior menu, or does it delve deeper into the game's innards than that?

It goes deeper. The in-game settings affect the custom AI scripts also,
it's just stuff like "use/don't use your abilities (i.e. shapeshafting)" or
"follow me and stay close/not so close/stay the hell away from me". The
scripts themselves enhance the actual "intelligence" of the NPCs. i.e. add
conditions, i.e. "if you spot a trap, go and disarm it BUT don't be a
dumbfuck so IF you are in the middle of the fight, then wait until it is
over, killl everything first, THEN go and disarm the trap". The "stock"
scripts only say "if you spot a trap, go and disarm it" with the results
you'd expect.
The game supports all of that, it's just that the default AI scripts are
not making use of the available power.

Makes you wonder why not. Did they not have the time to do them properly? I
assume that they KNOW how to make their own scripts work so it had to be time
right?

The obvious answer is that AI is an unsolved problem and nobody knows
how to write a script that will do the right thing in all situations.

Except of course some bloke who is already up to version 0.3, that seems to
work better than what the geniuses at Oblivion could come up with you mean?
;-)

[Memnoch]

On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 16:55:51 GMT, Memnoch

Post by Memnoch

Post by Gerry Quinn

Post by Memnoch

Post by Michael Vondung

Post by chainbreaker
does it simply change some settings available to you on the in-game
behavior menu, or does it delve deeper into the game's innards than that?

It goes deeper. The in-game settings affect the custom AI scripts also,
it's just stuff like "use/don't use your abilities (i.e. shapeshafting)" or
"follow me and stay close/not so close/stay the hell away from me". The
scripts themselves enhance the actual "intelligence" of the NPCs. i.e. add
conditions, i.e. "if you spot a trap, go and disarm it BUT don't be a
dumbfuck so IF you are in the middle of the fight, then wait until it is
over, killl everything first, THEN go and disarm the trap". The "stock"
scripts only say "if you spot a trap, go and disarm it" with the results
you'd expect.
The game supports all of that, it's just that the default AI scripts are
not making use of the available power.

Makes you wonder why not. Did they not have the time to do them properly? I
assume that they KNOW how to make their own scripts work so it had to be time
right?

The obvious answer is that AI is an unsolved problem and nobody knows
how to write a script that will do the right thing in all situations.

Except of course some bloke who is already up to version 0.3, that seems to
work better than what the geniuses at Oblivion could come up with you mean?
;-)

That should have been Obsidian. :-))

[Gerry Quinn]

Post by Memnoch
On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 16:55:51 GMT, Memnoch

Post by Memnoch

Post by Gerry Quinn

Post by Memnoch
Makes you wonder why not. Did they not have the time to do them properly? I
assume that they KNOW how to make their own scripts work so it had to be time
right?

The obvious answer is that AI is an unsolved problem and nobody knows
how to write a script that will do the right thing in all situations.

Except of course some bloke who is already up to version 0.3, that seems to
work better than what the geniuses at Oblivion could come up with you mean?
;-)

That should have been Obsidian. :-))

Maybe it is better, or is better in the parts you have tested, or
better for your play-style. But it doesn't sound like he has solved
the problem of making it "work right".

- Gerry Quinn

[Victor Velazquez]

Post by Gerry Quinn

Post by Memnoch
On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 16:55:51 GMT, Memnoch

Post by Memnoch

Post by Gerry Quinn

Post by Memnoch
Makes you wonder why not. Did they not have the time to do them properly? I
assume that they KNOW how to make their own scripts work so it had to be time
right?

The obvious answer is that AI is an unsolved problem and nobody knows
how to write a script that will do the right thing in all situations.

Except of course some bloke who is already up to version 0.3, that seems to
work better than what the geniuses at Oblivion could come up with you mean?
;-)

That should have been Obsidian. :-))

Maybe it is better, or is better in the parts you have tested, or
better for your play-style. But it doesn't sound like he has solved
the problem of making it "work right".

From another datapoint, I've gone through 75% of the OC without the AI
script (now up to 3.04...or something) and 50% (with another
character...alt-itis?) with it on. It is by no means perfect and would
still be complained about were it like this out of the box *and* I find it
significantly improved (for me, with all my quirks and niggles). Having
some guy whip this into something resembling a reasonably poor AI in a few
days seems kind of astounding (buit then I don't work with computers).

[Memnoch]

Post by Gerry Quinn

Post by Memnoch
On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 16:55:51 GMT, Memnoch

Post by Memnoch

Post by Gerry Quinn

Post by Memnoch
Makes you wonder why not. Did they not have the time to do them properly? I
assume that they KNOW how to make their own scripts work so it had to be time
right?

The obvious answer is that AI is an unsolved problem and nobody knows
how to write a script that will do the right thing in all situations.

Except of course some bloke who is already up to version 0.3, that seems to
work better than what the geniuses at Oblivion could come up with you mean?
;-)

That should have been Obsidian. :-))

Maybe it is better, or is better in the parts you have tested, or
better for your play-style. But it doesn't sound like he has solved
the problem of making it "work right".

What I would like is the option to have a thief attempt to recover traps first
rather than disabled them. Some of them, like the gas ones, are worth a fair
bit.

[Loren Pechtel]

On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 21:28:27 GMT, Memnoch

Post by Memnoch
What I would like is the option to have a thief attempt to recover traps first
rather than disabled them. Some of them, like the gas ones, are worth a fair
bit.

If you want to be really annoyed--in HotU there was nobody who would
buy recovered traps!

[Doug Quale]

Post by Loren Pechtel
On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 21:28:27 GMT, Memnoch

Post by Memnoch
What I would like is the option to have a thief attempt to recover traps first
rather than disabled them. Some of them, like the gas ones, are worth a fair
bit.

If you want to be really annoyed--in HotU there was nobody who would
buy recovered traps!

The genie merchant in the bottle will.

[Olaf]

Post by Gerry Quinn

Post by Memnoch

Post by Michael Vondung

Post by chainbreaker
does it simply change some settings available to you on the in-game
behavior menu, or does it delve deeper into the game's innards than that?

It goes deeper. The in-game settings affect the custom AI scripts also,
it's just stuff like "use/don't use your abilities (i.e. shapeshafting)" or
"follow me and stay close/not so close/stay the hell away from me". The
scripts themselves enhance the actual "intelligence" of the NPCs. i.e. add
conditions, i.e. "if you spot a trap, go and disarm it BUT don't be a
dumbfuck so IF you are in the middle of the fight, then wait until it is
over, killl everything first, THEN go and disarm the trap". The "stock"
scripts only say "if you spot a trap, go and disarm it" with the results
you'd expect.
The game supports all of that, it's just that the default AI scripts are
not making use of the available power.

Makes you wonder why not. Did they not have the time to do them properly? I
assume that they KNOW how to make their own scripts work so it had to be time
right?

The obvious answer is that AI is an unsolved problem and nobody knows
how to write a script that will do the right thing in all situations.
Sadly, this is the same issue that has made all the games in this mode
since BG, with a partial exception for PS:T, unplayable for me.
If you want tactical party combat, either you need to keep the
environment simple (a la Diablo etc.) or make it turn-based.
Everything else just comes up broken every time.

I guess my response is: why no improvement? I dont expect AI to be perfect
but I do expect it to get better. This AI, out of the box, is worse than
the infinity engine games if you ask me.

[chainbreaker]

Post by Michael Vondung

Post by chainbreaker
does it simply change some settings available to you on the in-game
behavior menu, or does it delve deeper into the game's innards than that?

It goes deeper. The in-game settings affect the custom AI scripts
also, it's just stuff like "use/don't use your abilities (i.e.
shapeshafting)" or "follow me and stay close/not so close/stay the
hell away from me". The scripts themselves enhance the actual
"intelligence" of the NPCs. i.e. add conditions, i.e. "if you spot a
trap, go and disarm it BUT don't be a dumbfuck so IF you are in the
middle of the fight, then wait until it is over, killl everything
first, THEN go and disarm the trap". The "stock" scripts only say "if
you spot a trap, go and disarm it" with the results you'd expect.
The game supports all of that, it's just that the default AI scripts
are not making use of the available power.
M.

Hmm--sounds like another argument to revert to a completely turn-based
system to me, although I shudder to think of the micromanagement it would
entail. Makes your notions of a single-character playable game very
appealing, though. :-)

Thanks for the detailed explanation, too.

[a***@yahoo.com]

Post by Michael Vondung
The game, at times (in some
situations, not across the board), felt broken *because* of the AI.
Particularly the issue with the healing NPCs not healing anyone but
themselves. They *never*, not once, healed anyone else,

Actually, that reminds of several people that played player character
clerics that way... in real life dnd :-)

[Victor Velazquez]

Post by a***@yahoo.com

Post by Michael Vondung
The game, at times (in some
situations, not across the board), felt broken *because* of the AI.
Particularly the issue with the healing NPCs not healing anyone but
themselves. They *never*, not once, healed anyone else,

Actually, that reminds of several people that played player character
clerics that way... in real life dnd :-)

Wow, the worm has sure turned when a phrase like "real life dnd" makes
sense. ;-)

[Nostromo]

Post by a***@yahoo.com

Post by Michael Vondung
The game, at times (in some
situations, not across the board), felt broken *because* of the AI.
Particularly the issue with the healing NPCs not healing anyone but
themselves. They *never*, not once, healed anyone else,

Actually, that reminds of several people that played player character
clerics that way... in real life dnd :-)

Oh yes! You knew those types from the first battle through to the final
tantrum which disbanded the group (or you started another game where
they were banned from playing a healer :).

[John Cocktosen]

Post by Michael Vondung

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=NWN2HakpaksOriginal.Detail&id=11

- Rangers/Arcane Archers will use rapid shot (if they have it).
- Monks will always use flurry of blows in melee.
- Casters will use defensive casting in melee.
- Henchmen hopefully switch weapons to melee in melee (not sure if they
will switch back yet), monks should use their hands.
- Henchmen should no longer use bard song/turn undead/frenzy/berserk/dragon
breath when abilities are disabled.
- I believe the lock ups were fixed.
- Clerics and druids should start healing others.
The files go into the Override folder in My Documents/Neverwinter Nights
2/, NOT in the Override folder in the game directory.
http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=519921&forum=109&sp=0
M.

Is it necessary to start a new game to get this to work? I put the
files in the correct place, but the other person in my party (I'm still
near the beginning of the game) stops following me. Even if I go into
their AI setting and tell them to follow me near again, he won't follow
me. I delete these AI files (go back to the defaults), and he starts
following me again.

Any idea what is causing that?

Thanks...

[Michael Vondung]

Post by John Cocktosen
Any idea what is causing that?

I've had the problem with NPCs not following without the modified scripts.
What fixed it is right-clicking on an empty spot on the screen and
selecting "Broadcast Command -> Follow me". I've not experienced it with
the new scripts, but don't believe that it is necessarily related. If you
try this, does it work?

The scripts don't require you to start a new game, no. Just need to
relaunch the game application for them to be taken into account.

M.

[chainbreaker]

Post by John Cocktosen
Is it necessary to start a new game to get this to work? I put the
files in the correct place, but the other person in my party (I'm
still near the beginning of the game) stops following me. Even if I
go into their AI setting and tell them to follow me near again, he
won't follow me. I delete these AI files (go back to the defaults),
and he starts following me again.
Any idea what is causing that?
Thanks...

Somewhere along the line you've likely accidentally given them a command to
"guard a location" or somesuch. If you go into your "broadcast commands"
menu or bring up the menu to specifically tell the character to follow you,
then he should start tailing you like a good little puppy again.