A Bard/RDD/AA build ...

[Michael Vondung]

I've been thinking about a build that works well with the Arcane
Archer class and also has access to a few basic spells. What I have in
mind is a good archer, with the ability to buff a little. I discussed
this elsewhere and the result was this: Bard 5, RDD 10, AA 25. The
first goal would be five bard levels, eight RDD levels and six AA
levels.

As I'm writing this, I'm in the process of trying this out in a
training module. The first problem I noticed is that one needs five
bard levels before any multiclassing is possible. RDD requires eight
ranks of lore, and the earliest time this can be achieved is by the
fifth bard level. Then it s possible to multiclass to RDD, and at
character level ten the first AA level can be picked up. (That's as
far as I got.)

The requirement to take all of the five bard levels at once is a bit
of a problem since only bards have Tumble as a class skill, RDD and AA
don't. I had wanted to max this later by picking up the fifth bard
level late in the character's career, but this isn't going to work. I
guess Tumble's out, pity, I would have liked the AC bonus. Skill-wise
this build is a bit limited, I think. Hide and move silently are class
skills of the bard and the AA, not the RDD. Spellcraft is a class
skill of bards and RDD. Discipline works for bards and RDDs.

*scratches his head* Peform needs nine points for the first three
songs, which is all I can get with five levels. Hide and move silently
are obvious candidates, and since they are class skills of AA, they
can be easily maxed with the bard 5, RDD 10, AA 25 build. I'd take
Persuade for the campaign, too. There's room for one skill after this,
I think. Discipline or spellcraft, probably not max'ed, though.
Spontaneously I'd opt for spellcraft, but I don't have the same
experience as you guys here.

As for spells ... the character will have access to four first circle
spells and three second circle spells. Since I can't swap them out
later, what's good here? I considered: Magic armour, magic weapon,
PFA, Identify -- and Cat's Grace, Bull's Strength (do I need it if I
start with 10 and get 10 RDD levels?), and Owl's Wisdom (to make up
for starting with 8 wisdom).

Lastly, starting scores ... I settled for 10 str, 20 dex, 12 con, 8
wis (ouch!), 10 int, 12 cha. I could go with 12 int and 8 str, but I
don't think there are all that many skills I need/want. The 10 RDD
will give me +10 STR (taking my base str to 20), which should be
enough to make good use of Might. Level up points would all go into
dex. Is starting with 20 dex very obscene? :) Oh, and the race is an
elf.

Thoughts?

M.

[Kharsis]

Post by Michael Vondung
I've been thinking about a build that works well with the Arcane
Archer class and also has access to a few basic spells. What I have in
mind is a good archer, with the ability to buff a little. I discussed
this elsewhere and the result was this: Bard 5, RDD 10, AA 25. The
first goal would be five bard levels, eight RDD levels and six AA
levels.
As I'm writing this, I'm in the process of trying this out in a
training module. The first problem I noticed is that one needs five
bard levels before any multiclassing is possible. RDD requires eight
ranks of lore, and the earliest time this can be achieved is by the
fifth bard level. Then it s possible to multiclass to RDD, and at
character level ten the first AA level can be picked up. (That's as
far as I got.)
The requirement to take all of the five bard levels at once is a bit
of a problem since only bards have Tumble as a class skill, RDD and AA
don't. I had wanted to max this later by picking up the fifth bard
level late in the character's career, but this isn't going to work. I
guess Tumble's out, pity, I would have liked the AC bonus. Skill-wise
this build is a bit limited, I think. Hide and move silently are class
skills of the bard and the AA, not the RDD. Spellcraft is a class
skill of bards and RDD. Discipline works for bards and RDDs.
*scratches his head* Peform needs nine points for the first three
songs, which is all I can get with five levels. Hide and move silently
are obvious candidates, and since they are class skills of AA, they
can be easily maxed with the bard 5, RDD 10, AA 25 build. I'd take
Persuade for the campaign, too. There's room for one skill after this,
I think. Discipline or spellcraft, probably not max'ed, though.
Spontaneously I'd opt for spellcraft, but I don't have the same
experience as you guys here.
As for spells ... the character will have access to four first circle
spells and three second circle spells. Since I can't swap them out
later, what's good here? I considered: Magic armour, magic weapon,
PFA, Identify -- and Cat's Grace, Bull's Strength (do I need it if I
start with 10 and get 10 RDD levels?), and Owl's Wisdom (to make up
for starting with 8 wisdom).
Lastly, starting scores ... I settled for 10 str, 20 dex, 12 con, 8
wis (ouch!), 10 int, 12 cha. I could go with 12 int and 8 str, but I
don't think there are all that many skills I need/want. The 10 RDD
will give me +10 STR (taking my base str to 20), which should be
enough to make good use of Might. Level up points would all go into
dex. Is starting with 20 dex very obscene? :) Oh, and the race is an
elf.
Thoughts?
M.

I wouldn't worry about mage armour due to the way it works in NWN. You
will very quickly have access to items which make it useless - items
that add +1 armour, +1 natural armour or +1 evasion are vey common.
This just leaves the +1 dodge bonus - not really worth it IMO.

Kharsis

[Michael Vondung]

Post by Kharsis
I wouldn't worry about mage armour due to the way it works in NWN.

Okay, so, this is out. Magic Weapon only works with melee weapons, so
it's out for my character, too (she uses a bow, always). Oh, well. :)

M.

[Michael Vondung]

So, I leveled my test character to 20, in various ways. Someone had
suggested to get bard 5, 8 RDD and 6 AA before 20. When I tried this
and took an AA level at 20, I get my 4th attack at 20. When I go bard
5, RDD 5, then get 10 AA levels, I get the 4th attack by the 19th
character level.

I'm not sure how to progress after 20. Perhaps get the 5 remaining RDD
levels, then continue with AA levels until 40 (in theory). Hmm. I wish
I had a solution for the tumble problem. This is up to +8 AC right
there, and I can't get 'em. :/ Unless I sacrifice an AA level and go
with bard 6, 10 RDD, 24 AA, maxing tumbling at once with saved up
points. How much would I lose by this? This 6th bard level would need
to be picked up very late.

Totally clueless which Epic Feats are crucial for this build. Can't
see any at a first glance. :)

M.

[Matthew Miller]

Post by Michael Vondung
I had a solution for the tumble problem. This is up to +8 AC right
there, and I can't get 'em. :/ Unless I sacrifice an AA level and go
with bard 6, 10 RDD, 24 AA, maxing tumbling at once with saved up
points. How much would I lose by this? This 6th bard level would need
to be picked up very late.

Hmmm, actually, looks like Epic AA gets the increased Enchant Arrow every
odd-numbered level. So little point in AA 24. Well, another feat, but
you'll have plenty by then. So might as well make it Bard 7. It kinda
depends on how versatile you want the character to be -- will it fulfill a
specific party role, or do you want to be decent out on your own as well?
In the second case, I'd suggest even more bard levels.

Post by Michael Vondung
Totally clueless which Epic Feats are crucial for this build. Can't
see any at a first glance. :)

Well, Overwhelming Crit is an Epic AA feat, and for most archer builds,
will be out of reach because of the 23 Str requirement. RDD+AA might be
able to pull it off, though.

[Matthew Miller]

Post by Michael Vondung
of a problem since only bards have Tumble as a class skill, RDD and AA
don't. I had wanted to max this later by picking up the fifth bard
level late in the character's career, but this isn't going to work. I
guess Tumble's out, pity, I would have liked the AC bonus. Skill-wise

Ditch the last five levels of AA, and replace with periodically-spaced
levels of bard for tumble (and other skills).

Post by Michael Vondung
Lastly, starting scores ... I settled for 10 str, 20 dex, 12 con, 8
wis (ouch!), 10 int, 12 cha. I could go with 12 int and 8 str, but I

8 wis is easy to compensate for in NWN -- get an item which makes you
immune to mind-affecting spells, and you're basically covered.

[John Viveiros]

Post by Michael Vondung
I've been thinking about a build that works well with the Arcane
Archer class and also has access to a few basic spells. What I
have in mind is a good archer, with the ability to buff a little.
I discussed this elsewhere and the result was this: Bard 5, RDD
10, AA 25. The first goal would be five bard levels, eight RDD
levels and six AA levels.
As I'm writing this, I'm in the process of trying this out in a
training module. The first problem I noticed is that one needs
five bard levels before any multiclassing is possible. RDD
requires eight ranks of lore, and the earliest time this can be
achieved is by the fifth bard level. Then it s possible to
multiclass to RDD, and at character level ten the first AA level
can be picked up. (That's as far as I got.)
The requirement to take all of the five bard levels at once is a
bit of a problem since only bards have Tumble as a class skill,
RDD and AA don't. I had wanted to max this later by picking up the
fifth bard level late in the character's career, but this isn't
going to work. I guess Tumble's out, pity, I would have liked the
AC bonus. Skill-wise this build is a bit limited, I think. Hide
and move silently are class skills of the bard and the AA, not the
RDD. Spellcraft is a class skill of bards and RDD. Discipline
works for bards and RDDs.
*scratches his head* Peform needs nine points for the first three
songs, which is all I can get with five levels. Hide and move
silently are obvious candidates, and since they are class skills
of AA, they can be easily maxed with the bard 5, RDD 10, AA 25
build. I'd take Persuade for the campaign, too. There's room for
one skill after this, I think. Discipline or spellcraft, probably
not max'ed, though. Spontaneously I'd opt for spellcraft, but I
don't have the same experience as you guys here.
As for spells ... the character will have access to four first
circle spells and three second circle spells. Since I can't swap
them out later, what's good here? I considered: Magic armour,
magic weapon, PFA, Identify -- and Cat's Grace, Bull's Strength
(do I need it if I start with 10 and get 10 RDD levels?), and
Owl's Wisdom (to make up for starting with 8 wisdom).
Lastly, starting scores ... I settled for 10 str, 20 dex, 12 con,
8 wis (ouch!), 10 int, 12 cha. I could go with 12 int and 8 str,
but I don't think there are all that many skills I need/want. The
10 RDD will give me +10 STR (taking my base str to 20), which
should be enough to make good use of Might. Level up points would
all go into dex. Is starting with 20 dex very obscene? :) Oh, and
the race is an elf.
Thoughts?

Well, I guess I look at things differently than the NWN designers. For
me, the reason you go RDD is to grab the extra +14 in stat adjustments
(+8 str/+2 con/+2 int/+2 ch). The idea of having a sorcerer/RDD dual
class is pretty weak - not much for melee (unless you spend all your
feats grabbing weapon/armor proficiencies and the still spell feat),
spells topped out at half what they could be.

I just finished SOU-NS-HOU with a Bard/F/RDD, and took the levels as
BBFFF DDDDD DDDDD BBFFB BFFBB. IIRC, I started with all 14's (maybe a
12 con) except for W of 8. Having a 14 Int just makes it easier to get
the needed skills. I never took a single Perform. I split the Bard
Skills between Use Magic Item and Tumble. I always kept Discipline at
maximum. I took enough in Persuade to get talk my way through a
bunch. I think I cast about eight spells the entire three games, other
than cures. I didn't notice much of an effect from 20 ranks in tumble
by the end, although maybe that's why I wasn't ever hit. The Use Magic
Item skill was great. By the end, only a couple artifacts were
unusable. UMI might be worth a Skill Focus feat. I didn't hide much.
If I needed it, I used an invisibility spell. At high levels (in
Nether Scrolls) I started picking up unlock and disable traps and
skipped the henchman until I found that 'special someone' in HOU.

For your case, I didn't think the bard songs were that great anyway, so
there no reason to spend valuable skill points (especially with a 10
int) and the lingering song feat on perform. The Bard is a decent
fighter, is great with figuring things out (Lore checks), reading dead
languages, etc. You aren't losing that much by going Bard for five,
then going prestige. It's a little weak until 7th level (2nd RDD), but
you can make it fine with a henchman. You might conserve skill points
by waiting about 5 levels of RDD, and then grabbing another bard level
to re-maximize your tumble skills again at 1pt/rank rather than 2. It
looked like RDD wasn't really a great Epic class, so you probably get
more from the attack and damage bonuses from Epic AA.

I ended the string of modules at 27th or 28th level, so your plans for
level 40 might not come to pass if HOU was what you had in mind. I
think I needed one heal potion for the final battle (I was down to 80
hp at one time), but otherwise came through unscathed.

Oh, did you know that HOU basically starts out with a "trainer" program
that will take your newly created character to 15th level. I just load
it up and try out stuff (like how to get to Weapon Master quickest -
it's pretty damn difficult with all the restrictions).